Curse

Iras K · Aug 26, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

A lot of flaming against builds running a spirit spammer. But now that NR is gone, I´ve started seeing people go back to the old builds. I haven´t yet seen anything really ¨new¨ in tombs (Prolly because I haven´t played much), however, my question is : Do you guys thing that people was really complaining for an overpowered skill or was it because they were jelous and severily wounded that they were not part of spirit spamming metagame (pwned)? I mean, wft, now that NR is gone, move one dudes...

nailz · Aug 26, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

spirit spamming needed to be killed....they just nerfed the wrong skills and ignored the most overpowered skill in the game.

Charcoal Ann · Aug 26, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

NR is not gone. it simply requires skill to use now. it effect is still great in PvP.

my problem with the previous NR was the lack of skill involved with its use.

Mithie · Aug 26, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

NR was nerfed, but not to the point of uselessness. A good team will still slam it down to smash your enchant-heavy builds. Rend Enchants and other "weak" enchant strippers get quite a bit of a boost when running under NR. From what I've seen today, everyone's running a smite build or some other variation of an enchantment heavy build. I've come across a few spike teams here and there, and a couple of ranger heavy condition builds... much more variety in strategy than there was pre-update.

Iras K · Aug 26, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

I´d have to dissagree with that. Spirit spammer is not like the easiest job out there. You must have good team communication, make sure everything is always up and backed up, use your distracting shot/oath shot wisely, cast the right spirit at the right time (specially NR), make sure it´s available and that your defensive stance is up, pfff. I could roughly name a lot more easier PvP toons:

Spiker, axe warrior(ranger),putrid necro, blackout warrior, marksmanship ranger, smiter, name it yourself.

And for sure, hehe, nothing is harder and more complex than healing monk or mesmer.

Mithie · Aug 26, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

The problem with NR isn't that it's easy to use; it's the fact that this one spirit effectively and brutally counters 1/3 of the skills in the game.

Iras K · Aug 26, 2005, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Well, I saw this point in one other thread, and it´s the fact that you say it counters 1/3 the skills in game, but now you can spam that third on your ghost to make him untouchable/unkillable, what you think of that?

P.S. I´m not being sarcastic, just FYI

Mithie · Aug 26, 2005, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iras K

Well, I saw this point in one other thread, and it´s the fact that you say it counters 1/3 the skills in game, but now you can spam that third on your ghost to make him untouchable/unkillable, what you think of that?

THEN, you can use Nature's Renewal like it's really MEANT to be used. Slam it down, then rend/shatter/desecrate. Nature's Renewal TODAY smashes out persistent enchants outright, and with the double casting time on enchants, suddenly, all your enchant removal skills just got a whole lot better since they can't renew the enchantments as fast.

I just ran a condition attrition team against an enchant heavy team who did just that: slammed enchants on their ghost. Guess what? NR + focused removal destroyed their build quickly and brutally. While their monks were dealing with the NR effects and trying hard to renew the enchants, we adren spiked/DoT'ed/E-denied them with impunity.

Iras K · Aug 26, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Well, if it was MEANT to be used that way, then they put a very bad name to it

Mithie · Aug 26, 2005, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iras K

Well, if it was MEANT to be used that way, then they put a very bad name to it

Eh. It's MEANT to be used this way instead of the way it was used originally is because this way, it encourages the paper scissor rock balance game instead of the "punch in the face", which beats your paper, scissor, AND rock. The only way to counter it? Punch back.

MSecorsky · Aug 26, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I'm thinking (scary this early) that NR should be in the skill bar of every disrupting ranger now... should make disrupting enchanters much easier. Of course, I could be wrong...

Mithie · Aug 26, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I'm thinking (scary this early) that NR should be in the skill bar of every disrupting ranger now... should make disrupting enchanters much easier. Of course, I could be wrong...

No, you're right. NR gives the rangers that extra window he/she needs to shut down most enchant spammers down cold. Couple this with the decreased time on disrupting shot and concussion shot, plus a good support team with rend/des/shatter, you can make enchantment-heavy or enchantment-focused teams cry... easily.

MSecorsky · Aug 26, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

No, you're right. NR gives the rangers that extra window he/she needs to shut down most enchant spammers down cold. Couple this with the decreased time on disrupting shot and concussion shot, plus a good support team with rend/des/shatter, you can make enchantment-heavy or enchantment-focused teams cry... easily.

Thank you.

I just got tingly.

Edit... wow, what a brilliant move... even though rangers lost their primary enchant removal, they now are forces at enchant prevention, which needed a kick and nicely balances what was lost.

Plus, this makes them more attractive to teams.

octaviancmb · Aug 26, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Guys, it's been less than 10 hours since the update (10 hours during which most of America and Europe was asleep). It's going to take at least the weekend before we'll see a new tombs cycle. Lets not lament the return of dinosaur builds just yet, okay?

Personally I don't like a handfull of changes, but the overall effect of the update will, I believe, allow more creativity and exploration of recently marginalized builds (anything with hexes, for instance). The return of 58% of the Mesmer skill lines should make at least a noticable impact. The return of the Water and Curses lines are positive, too.

I can't wait to be able to play this weekend. It's going to be a lot of fun.

For the mostpart, good changes ANET, thanks!
cmb

nailz · Aug 26, 2005, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

No, you're right. NR gives the rangers that extra window he/she needs to shut down most enchant spammers down cold. Couple this with the decreased time on disrupting shot and concussion shot, plus a good support team with rend/des/shatter, you can make enchantment-heavy or enchantment-focused teams cry... easily.

I don't PvP...but I've noticed that this change has made it possible to shutdown enchant heavy teams much quicker than normal. I think I'll start PvPing on my ranger and see if we can't force the enchant heavy builds to make a revolutionary PvP change....given enough time something within PvP will change. For a while it will just go back to the way it was pre-NR. But once people figure out NR's practical use they'll be forced to change.

Mithie · Aug 26, 2005, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nailz

I don't PvP...but I've noticed that this change has made it possible to shutdown enchant heavy teams much quicker than normal. I think I'll start PvPing on my ranger and see if we can't force the enchant heavy builds to make a revolutionary PvP change....given enough time something within PvP will change. For a while it will just go back to the way it was pre-NR. But once people figure out NR's practical use they'll be forced to change.

Assuming two teams have equal skill and experience, the team which runs an enchant focused build (from what I've seen so far, which, granted, isn't much) will always lose in the long run due to the energy differences between disruption and enchant maintenance. So if you're going to run an enchantment focused build, you'd better play some sort of blitz, because as the game drags on, you become more and more at a disadvantage. On the other hand, an all out disruption team is easily countered by conventional means. So probably, from the way it looks now, a fairly balanced jack of all trades master of none team build might be the safest and most versatile way to go.

DarkWasp · Aug 26, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I dont get it, whenever they lower something everyone feels like its not usable anymore. By tweaking NR, there are no many spirit groups in the tombs. Why would they tweak it if they didnt want you to use it? Spirit spammers still work! Annoying the eles and enchant monks with QZ and NR. Using fertile season to make tanks even more tankish. And please lets not forget GC and Winter to make everything cold damage.

lishi · Aug 26, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

now you have only one qz/fertile down ecc

and a spiker team can kill it in 2 sec pressing ALT whenever you put it

or maybe i can put protective spirit on spirit :s?

Elythor · Aug 26, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

lishi....please don't run spiker teams no more >_<

You'll just get owned by a team who can throw up Protective Spirit / Spell Breaker / Obsidian Flesh quick.

lishi · Aug 26, 2005, 07:24 PM // 19:24

what you mean elythor? dont nerf it more?

yep i know

currently i have

Ranger -> nerfed
Air Elementalist -> nerfed
Monk -> nerfed
Mesmer -> boosted but im still at forge...

yea i know i can get around some nerf...

but